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New post by Hugh Leong : Thai Language Thai Culture:

Archive of the Farang Can Learn Thai Language รักภาษาไทย Facebook Group. Posts here can be referenced and linked to, but are locked and available only to members. To request post removal, contact us.
Viljar S
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:43 am

Re: New post by Hugh Leong : Thai Language Thai Culture:

Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:49 pm

Exactly - not yet is 'ยังไม่'. So in my example it would be 'ผมยังไม่กิน' or 'ผมยังไม่ได้กิน'.

សុង វណ្ណា
 
Posts: 797
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:43 am

Re: New post by Hugh Leong : Thai Language Thai Culture:

Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:27 am

Well that was simple enough; almost like how Khmer does tenses. ยัง ได้ ไม่ได้ เคย ไม่เคย จะ แล้ว and กำลัง are quite easy for me to remember because Khmer used them almost the same way, but of course different words. I can't really write the Khmer words in Thai script because of the differences in phones.

Richard J
 
Posts: 2724
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:43 am

Re: New post by Hugh Leong : Thai Language Thai Culture:

Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:34 am

An excerpt from the article that tell us all we need to know " In Thai the verbs themselves never change. It’s the words around them that do the changing. " ... I've found that if I use Thaiglish or Thinglish, that is the English spoken by many Thais, my wife included, and I just translate that English into Thai then I'm very close most of the time ;) A free lesson in Thai tenses just by listening to Thinglish. Here's a wiki article on this .. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinglish I was just researching the various English accents stumbled over this. Great article Catherine Wentworth thanks very much :) (Y)

Hugh L
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:43 am

Re: New post by Hugh Leong : Thai Language Thai Culture:

Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:16 am

Richard,

The Wikipedia article on Thinglish defines it as “the imperfect form of English produced by native Thai speakers due to language interference from the first language”

This is sometimes true, but it is a very linguistic view of this kind of English and not the whole answer. I believe that this “imperfect English” is often caused by English speakers trying to simplify their own language, thinking that it would be easier for a Thai to understand. But why say “same, same” when you can just as easily say “the same as”? (BTW, this phrase probably stems from the Vietnam War R & R GIs coming here and saying something to a working girl like “You same same girlfriend me.”

I wrote this a while back in an article I called “Tarzan English”.

“Recently when I overheard a very educated American I know answering the question of where his wife was, this is what I heard. 'She go market, buy ice cream me.' The Thai person he was talking to had a master’s degree from an American university and spoke flawless English. For an old English teacher like I used to be, it was like listening to fingernails on a blackboard.”

Turning to me my educated friend told me about his wife, 'She have new motorcycle. She buy yesterday.' Now he was speaking Tarzan English to Me.”

Dumbing down English does not make it easier to understand. But one unintended consequence of using English shortcuts is that our Thai friends will speak back to us in dumb English. English speaking husband, “I not like eating sticky rice every day.” Thai Wife, 'OK, I not cooking dinner you anymore.'”

Maybe if the English speaking husband didn't speak Tarzan English he would get the food he likes."

My suggestion: Speak correctly, whether it is English or Thai.

Kruu J
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:43 am

Re: New post by Hugh Leong : Thai Language Thai Culture:

Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:53 am

This is a great learning resource which is very well written. Well done Catherine, Hugh, Khun Pairoj and Kruu Mia! Amazing work!

One thing I would add is about the Passive Voice;

Passive Voice is not a tense in English or Thai. It is another grammar category called “Voice of a verb”. It is used to describe the relationship between the action or state with the subject.

Basically, if the subject does the action by oneself, it is called ‘active voice’ and if the subject has been caused to be in a state, it is called ‘passive voice’

For example;
Active voice : ปลากินไรแดงเป็นอาหาร = Fish eat krill as food.
Passive voice : ไรแดงถูกปลากินเป็นอาหาร = Krill is eaten as food by fish.

“Voice” can be used in all tenses by incorporating tense grammar within the sentence.

For example;
ไรแดงถูกปลากินเป็นอาหาร = Krill is eaten as food by fish. / Krill was eaten as food by fish. / Krill have been eaten as food by fish. / Krill had been eaten as food by fish. (Use context to understand what tense exactly)
ไรแดงได้ถูกปลากินเป็นอาหาร = Krill was eaten as food by fish. / Krill have been eaten as food by fish. / Krill had been eaten as food by fish. (Use context to understand what tense exactly)
ไรแดงถูกปลากินเป็นอาหารแล้ว = Krill was eaten as food by fish. / Krill have been eaten as food by fish. / Krill had been eaten as food by fish. (Use context to understand what tense exactly)
ไรแดงจะถูกปลากินเป็นอาหาร = Krill will be eaten as food by fish.
ไรแดงจะถูกปลากินเป็นอาหารแล้ว = Krill is about to be eaten as food by fish.
ไรแดงกำลังถูกปลากินเป็นอาหาร = Krill is eaten as food by fish at this moment.
ไรแดงกำลังจะถูกปลากินเป็นอาหาร = Krill is about to be eaten as food by fish.

My input here is about when you express tense in Thai it is all about context and if you want to specify specific tenses we use tense words like จะ ได้ แล้ว กำลัง กำลังจะ etc. and if you would like to be really specific about time, we would use time modifiers (time words and phrases) like วันนี้ พรุ่งนี้ ตอนบ่าย ปีที่แล้ว ตอน 7 โมงเช้า etc.

Tense words are the words that only indicate present, past or future unlike time modifiers, they are used to indicate specific periods of time.

In Thai language we think of time differently to English. We have tense, periods of time and time can travel.

The time subject is very sophisticated and hard to comprehend as it is an abstract subject, unlike actions. If I was to explain in more detail, it can take hours. So I hope my input here would be a little help for people to help them think of Thai grammar differently to English grammar. We have our own way of thinking. :)

Catherine W
 
Posts: 4281
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:43 am

Re: New post by Hugh Leong : Thai Language Thai Culture:

Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:00 pm

Thanks for your explanation Kruu Jiab - I'll leave it for Hugh Leong to respond to :)

Hugh L
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:43 am

Re: New post by Hugh Leong : Thai Language Thai Culture:

Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:15 pm

Kruu Jiap, Thanks so much for your input. I am glad you could explain the grammar involved in Thai tenses. I did not use the word "tense" in a grammatical way but more to indicate the "time" an action occurred. I personally am a lot less interested in grammar ("why" something is said in a certain way) than I am in "how" people say things. But there are a lot of grammar-wise people who are interested in this and your comments are very helpful. Thanks again.

Kruu J
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:43 am

Re: New post by Hugh Leong : Thai Language Thai Culture:

Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:13 pm

I am glad it can be helpful :) I like explaining "why" something is said in a certain way, so learners can understand how to think like a Thai and then I will provide examples about "how" it can be used. :)

Rudolf d
 
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:43 am

Re: New post by Hugh Leong : Thai Language Thai Culture:

Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:51 pm

keep them coming...Catherine....thanks

Rudolf d
 
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:43 am

Re: New post by Hugh Leong : Thai Language Thai Culture:

Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:52 pm

thanks miss Jiab

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