is there a better way to learn the 3 class
Re: is there a better way to learn the 3 class
how about writing too? how to know which consonant class?
Re: is there a better way to learn the 3 class
When you're writing, if you didn't know how to spell the word already, but knew the tone, you could get the word phonetically correct but might still spell it incorrectly, even knowing all the rules in the world. As there are multiple ways to spell exactly the same sound e.g. You could spell face as น่า or หน้า and it's exactly the same sound, but spelt differently.
But if you didn't know the consonant classes, you wouldn't know the tone rules, so wouldn't be able to read the word with the correct tone.
But if you didn't know the consonant classes, you wouldn't know the tone rules, so wouldn't be able to read the word with the correct tone.
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บรายอัน คิลวินสกี
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Re: is there a better way to learn the 3 class
I disagree that you couldn't know the tone of a word without knowing the classes. For example, let's say one learns the word ข้าว through speaking, then learns how to spell that word. One needn't know which class ข belongs to - just to recognize the word itself. I wonder how many Thais consider which class a consonant is when reading or writing. For example, a medial "tt" is pronounced (at least in American English) as a quick "d" (I think I've seen it called a "flap d"). A foreigner learning the language can recognize the spelling "butter" and know it is pronounced as "buhder" without knowing any rules for pronunciation of medial consonants.
That said, I don't think it a worthless task to learn the consonant classes and it is certainly vital when wanting to know the correct pronunciation of a new word encountered while reading.
That said, I don't think it a worthless task to learn the consonant classes and it is certainly vital when wanting to know the correct pronunciation of a new word encountered while reading.
Re: is there a better way to learn the 3 class
And so how would you then read something which you haven't already memorised? Or how would you write something, which you hadn't memorised the spelling for? Knowing the tone rules/classes you might not write something correctly, because of the multiple possible spellings, but it'd at least be phonetically correct.
If you already know the Thai consonants, learning the classes + tone rules is easy, and can be done in a few hours. Getting proficient at it takes more practice, but is something you then practice every time you read a piece of text.
Not learning them is just laziness, despite any excuses which you might say. I did exactly the same thing, I learnt to read/write 3 1/2 years ago, but always said "Tones & tone rules are difficult, people should be able to understand what I say based on context anyway, so what's the point?"
Now I wish that I'd spent just a little bit of time learning the tones/tone rules 3 1/2 years ago, if I had of, I might be speaking significantly better Thai than what I am now.
Since although I know the tones/consonant classes/tone rules now, I only learnt them around 1 month ago. And that was only because I was about to start studying Thai, and didn't want to look like a dork because I knew everyone else in the class was taught them in the previous level.
As a result, when I read now, it takes time for me to identify the correct tones. It only takes a couple of hours to learn the classes/tone rules, and will immensely help the Thai of anyone who does learn.
If you already know the Thai consonants, learning the classes + tone rules is easy, and can be done in a few hours. Getting proficient at it takes more practice, but is something you then practice every time you read a piece of text.
Not learning them is just laziness, despite any excuses which you might say. I did exactly the same thing, I learnt to read/write 3 1/2 years ago, but always said "Tones & tone rules are difficult, people should be able to understand what I say based on context anyway, so what's the point?"
Now I wish that I'd spent just a little bit of time learning the tones/tone rules 3 1/2 years ago, if I had of, I might be speaking significantly better Thai than what I am now.
Since although I know the tones/consonant classes/tone rules now, I only learnt them around 1 month ago. And that was only because I was about to start studying Thai, and didn't want to look like a dork because I knew everyone else in the class was taught them in the previous level.
As a result, when I read now, it takes time for me to identify the correct tones. It only takes a couple of hours to learn the classes/tone rules, and will immensely help the Thai of anyone who does learn.
Re: is there a better way to learn the 3 class
First of all, I mentioned that knowing tone rules is "vital" for learning the proper pronunciation of words you don't already know. However, I imagine that one could - after a lot of reading and developing a feel for the language - be able to subconsciously recognize patterns and pronounce a word correctly. Let's say a Thai reads something and sees a word for the first time? Must s/he take recourse to tone rules and consonant class in order to be able to correctly pronounce the word?
Re: is there a better way to learn the 3 class
This discussion seems to suggest that Thai people don't learn the consonant classes used in their own language. I would suggest that that isn't the case. It may be that quite a few of them have forgotten the terms used to describe them. But that's not the same thing at all.
Re: is there a better way to learn the 3 class
Thais learn the consonant classes - just as English speakers learn fundamentals of English. There are, for example, rules regarding sentence stress, but I doubt any of us think about it. Certainly I must not be alone in that, when encountering a new word in English, I go based on pattern and experience rather than trying to figure out just how it should be pronounced based on steadfast rules (which of course I imagine are fewer in English). The point is that while learning consonant classes is very worthwhile and important to correct pronunciation, it is not 100% necessary.
Re: is there a better way to learn the 3 class
Thai native speakers are so familiar with the tone rules, that they don't even need to think in order to identify what the tone should be, often they don't even know what the tone rules are any more, because it's like breathing to them, just a natural function.
Much the same as we are with English grammar. We don't know the names for things, we don't know how to explain them, but we know the grammar and pronunciation "rules" like the back of our hand.
With a lot of experience, we can get to the same point with Thai. However we need to know what the rules are to begin with, otherwise what we learn might be incorrect.
Much the same way as how when we were young, we would have our spoken/written English constantly corrected by our parents/teachers, often without explaining why. As a result, we don't even know what the rules are, but when we write/speak, we obey every single rule (Well unless we had bad teachers, or are typing on the internet and get lazy lol). This is how we learnt the rules, but we still learnt the rules. There are lots of different ways to learn the rules, but it's still essential to learn them if we want to speak any language well.
Much the same as we are with English grammar. We don't know the names for things, we don't know how to explain them, but we know the grammar and pronunciation "rules" like the back of our hand.
With a lot of experience, we can get to the same point with Thai. However we need to know what the rules are to begin with, otherwise what we learn might be incorrect.
Much the same way as how when we were young, we would have our spoken/written English constantly corrected by our parents/teachers, often without explaining why. As a result, we don't even know what the rules are, but when we write/speak, we obey every single rule (Well unless we had bad teachers, or are typing on the internet and get lazy lol). This is how we learnt the rules, but we still learnt the rules. There are lots of different ways to learn the rules, but it's still essential to learn them if we want to speak any language well.
Re: is there a better way to learn the 3 class
I suspect you were able to use grammar properly before you could parse a sentence and explain the grammatical functions and parts of speech of every word in that sentence. I don't see why that would be impossible to do with learning to pronounce Thai. Have a lot of exposure and patters become a part of you.. Again, my issue is not with learning the classes, but rather with the notion that is is the "only" way to be able to pronounce Thai properly - or even the "only" way to read a new word on sight correctly.